Ikiganiro cyihariye: Rick Warren yavuze kuri Kagame, urupfu rw’umuhungu we, abanenga u Rwanda n’ibindi

Yanditswe na Philbert Girinema
Kuya 9 Nyakanga 2019 saa 09:14
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Izina Pasiteri Rick Warren ntirikiri rishya mu matwi y’abanyarwanda benshi kubera urukundo yagaragarije u Rwanda, ndetse nta mwaka ushira atarusuye akarugiramo n’ibikorwa bitandukanye, byarenze amasengesho bigahindura n’ubuzima bw’abatari bake.

Uyu munyamerika washinze Saddleback Church ni na we watangije Peace Plan, gahunda ihuza amatorero atandukanye mu bikorwa byagize uruhare mu guhindura ubuzima bw’abanyarwannda batandukanye, nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994.

Mu kiganiro cyihariye yagiranye na IGIHE, yagarutse ku ngingo zitandukanye zirimo imiyoborere y’u Rwanda, iterambere rugezeho n’abakomeje kunenga ibyo rugezeho atari uko bikwiye kunengwa gusa ahubwo ari ishyari baterwa n’uruhare bagize mu mahano yarugwiriye.

Pasiteri Rick Warren yavuze byinshi ku mubano we n'u Rwanda n'isano ikomeye afitanye n'abarutuye

Ikiganiro kirambuye na IGIHE

IGIHE: Ukigera mu Rwanda bwa mbere wahabonye ute?

Rick Warren : Nakunze igihugu cy’imisozi igihumbi, ibihe hano bihora bihindagukira, ni igihugu gitatswe n’ibyiza, cyane amaterasi, ahantu bahinga ku misozi, icyayi, urutoki n’ibindi. Mu by’ukuri nkunda iki gihugu. Ni igihugu nyaburanga bitewe n’imiterere yacyo ariko by’umwihariko kubera abaturage bacyo. Nkunda abaturage ba hano cyane.

IGIHE: Kubera iki?

Rick Warren : Nkunda abantu ba hano kuko ububabare batewe na Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi mu 1994 bwarabakomeje. Igihugu cyose cyarahungabanye, kubura miliyoni y’abaturage mu minsi ijana, ni gute uhangana nabyo kuva mu ntangiro? Nk’uko Bishop John Rucyahana abivuga “ni gute wakwigisha icyizere ufatiye ku hahise?”

Ntabwo iteka ububabare buhindura abantu ngo bubageze ku byiza ariko ububabare bushobora guhindura abantu bubagira beza mu gihe batumbiriye Imana, niba uvuze uti ngiye kwigira muri ubu bubabare.

Urugero ubwo umuhungu wanjye mukuru yapfaga yiyahuye mu myaka itandatu ishize, yari yaragowe cyane n’ubuzima kubera uburwayi bwo mu mutwe mu buzima bwe bwose. Icyo gihe ubwo yiyahuraga, sinashakaga kugira aho njya, sinigeze mbwiriza, sinigeze nigisha mu gihe kingana n’ibyumweru 16.

Namaraga amasaha 12 ku munsi ndi njyenyine hamwe n’Imana, gusa ubwo nafataga umwanzuro wo gusubukura ibijyanye n’ivugabutumwa, nyuma y’ibyo bihe bikomeye by’agahinda, ahantu honyine nagiye ni mu Rwanda. Impamvu ni uko nari nziko Abanyarwanda bumva neza ububabare.

IGIHE: Ni gute kandi ni ryari umubano wawe n’u Rwanda watangiye?

Rick Warren: Isano yanjye ya mbere n’u Rwanda yabayeho binyuze kuri Perezida Kagame, yasuye inshuti yanjye muri Amerika, Joe Richie, hanyuma Joe yari afite ku meza mu rugo rwe kopi y’igitabo cyanjye, ‘Ubuzima bufite intego’.

Hanyuma Perezida Kagame abona icyo gitabo aramubwira ati “Ubuzima bufite intego, uyu ni umutwe mwiza w’igitabo”, arakomeza aramubwira ati “ndi umugabo ufite intego kandi ndi kubaka igihugu ku ntego mfatanyije n’abandi bayobozi, ndifuza gusoma iki gitabo.”

Joe aramubwira ati “Yego, usibye no gusoma igitabo ariko ukwiye no guhura n’uwo muntu.”

Yaraduhuje hanyuma hashize amezi make, ibaruwa ya mbere yaturutse kuri Perezida Kagame ubwe, avuga ati “turi kugerageza kubaka igihugu nyuma ya Jenoside, ushobora kuza kudufasha kubaka igihugu gifite intego”.

Ndatekereza nti ‘ndi Umupasiteri cyane cyane nkorana n’amadini, ariko hari n’ibindi nkorana n’abayobozi muri za Guverinoma, abayobozi bakora ishoramari ariko mbere na mbere nkorana n’abapasiteri kandi niba ashaka ko nza, nzaza.

Bwa mbere ubwo nazaga mu Rwanda, mu by’ukuri ntabwo nari nzanywe no kwigisha ikintu na kimwe, naje kwiga. Narumvaga hanyuma nkandika byose icya rimwe, aho havuyemo umuhate w’igihe kirekire ku Rwanda.

Amatorero yo mu bindi bihugu uzasanga ajya mu gihugu runaka akahamara imyaka ibiri cyangwa itatu hanyuma akaba asoje ibikorwa. Ariko iyo twe tugiye ahantu, dushinga amatsinda hanyuma tukubaka umubano w’igihe kirekire.

Saddleback Church ubu iri mu Rwanda kugira ngo ifashe andi matorero, ifashe abakora ubucuruzi, ifashe Guverinoma mu buryo bwose bushoboka. Abayoboke b’urusengero rwanjye barenga ibihumbi bitatu batanze umusanzu mu Rwanda.

Rick Warren ashimangira ko kimwe mu bintu byiza u Rwanda rufite nyuma ya Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, ari imiyoborere ihamye ya Perezida Kagame

IGIHE: Ni uruhe ruhare PEACE PLAN yagize mu Rwanda kuva igiyeho?

Rick Warren: Hari byinshi bikomeye byagezweho. Nk’urugero, tuzi ko kuva PEACE PLAN igiyeho mu Rwanda, abantu miliyoni imwe bavuye mu bukene. Ntabwo ari umusaruro wa PEACE PLAN yonyine ahubwo byagizwemo uruhare na buri umwe. Twakoze ibyo dushoboye, amatorero yacu akora ibyo ashinzwe, Guverinoma ikora ibyo ishinzwe, abacuruzi bakora ibyabo. Kuvuga ko miliyoni imwe yavuye mu bukene, ni intsinzi ikomeye.

Indi ntsinzi ikomeye ni igabanyuka ry’impfubyi muri iki gihugu. Jenoside yasize hafi miliyoni y’impfubyi mu gihugu. Ni ukuvuga ko kimwe cya cumi cy’abaturage bari impfubyi za Jenoside. Ubwo Perezida Kagame yadusabaga ubufasha ku kibazo cy’impfubyi, namubwiye ko nta kibazo twafasha ariko tumumenyesha ko ikituraje ishinga atari ukubaka ibigo by’impfubyi.

Nta mpamvu yo kubaka ibigo by’impfubyi byinshi kuko abana bakeneye imiryango, ntabwo bakeneye ibigo by’impfubyi. Ni ukuvuga ko iyo mba ukora urutonde rw’ibyakorwa kuri izo mpfubyi, kubaka ibigo by’impfubyi byari kuza nyuma.

Ubajije buri mwana uti urashaka kuba mu kigo cyangwa urashaka kuba mu muryango? Ijana ku ijana bagusubiza ko bashaka kuba mu muryango.

Mu myaka mike ishize twari dufite ibigo by’impfubyi bitatu, biramanuka biba bibiri none dusigaranye kimwe. Nituramuka dukomeje gukorana na Minisiteri y’Ubuzima ndetse n’iy’Iterambere ry’Umuryango kuri iki kibazo, mu mpera z’umwaka utaha nta kigo cy’impfubyi kizaba gisigaye. Bizatuma u Rwanda ruba igihugu cya mbere ku isi kitagira ikigo cy’impfubyi. Ibyo bisobanuye ko abana bose bazaba bitaweho neza bafite ababarera, ni indi ntsinzi.

Rick Warren akunze kugira uruhare mu bikorwa byinshi bigaruka ku Rwanda: Aha yari muri Rwanda Day

IGIHE: Nihe ubona u Rwanda mu myaka 25 iri imbere?

Rick Warren: Mu bijyanye n’imyizerere, iterambere ry’ubukungu ndetse n’iry’imiyoborere, u Rwanda ruri kwihuta. Mu myaka yashize, nabwiye Perezida Kagame ko icyitegererezo cy’u Rwanda atari Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika, ahari gikwiye kuba Singapore.

Mu bihugu byose, Singapore nicyo gihugu cyonyine cyabashije kuva ku kuba igihugu gikennye kikagira ku kuba icya mbere giteye imbere mu gisekuru kimwe.

Ndizera ko u Rwanda ruri mu murongo wo gukora ibyo. Inyuma ya Singapore, rwaba igihugu cya mbere kivuye mu nzira y’amajyambere kikaba igihugu giteye imbere, aho ibibazo by’ubukene n’indwara bigabanyuka buri mwaka; kandi mu by’ukuri ibi biterwa n’imiyoborere y’igihugu irenze iya byinshi byo ku Isi.

Nta gushidikanya ko ibi biterwa n’imiyoborere. U Rwanda ubwarwo nta mutungo kamere rufite nka zahabu mu butaka, diyama, peteroli n’andi mabuye y’agaciro. Ibyo bintu rimwe na rimwe bishobora kuba umuvumo. Ntekereza ko ikintu cy’ibanze u Rwanda rukwiye kumurikira amahanga, ari imiyoborere.

Uru ntabwo ari u Rwanda rwa Jenoside, imyaka 25 irashije, ibintu byarahindutse. U Rwanda rushya ruzaba icyamamare kubera abaturage barwo, ubuyobozi bwarwo, ikoranabuhanga, iterambere ryihuse nk’ibintu byose byiza.

Iki gitabo nicyo cyahuje Rick Warren na Perezida Kagame

IGIHE: Muri Gicurasi wakiriye Perezida Kagame mu rusengero rwawe muganira ku bijyanye no kwibuka ku nshuro ya 25 Jenoside yakorewe Abatutsi, nyuma y’icyo kiganiro, abantu benshi bo mu bihugu by’u Burengerazuba bw’isi banenze ubwo butumire. Ni iki ubivugaho?

Rick Warren: Kunenga bihoraho kandi bituruka ahantu hatandukanye. Byose biba bifite icyo bihuriyeho cyo kuba ababikora bafitiye ishyari ibyo u Rwanda rumaze kugeraho. Ntabwo bashaka kubona u Rwanda rutera imbere kubera impamvu zitandukanye. Icya mbere ni uko abasize bakoze Jenoside mu Rwanda bakiriho, batuye mu bindi bihugu. Ntabwo bashaka kubona u Rwanda rutera imbere.

Nta na kimwe cyiza bashobora kuvuga ku iterambere ry’iki gihugu kuko ni bamwe bagikuwemo ubwo bakoraga Jenoside kandi Perezida by’umwihariko yigeze kubabwira ati “Muhawe ikaze nimuramuka mushyize hasi intwaro mugakorana natwe mu kubaka igihugu bundi bushya.”

Bakuyeho igihano cy’urupfu mu mategeko y’u Rwanda. Inkiko Gacaca zatumye hajyaho imirimo rusange nk’igihano ku bagize uruhare muri Jenoside. Mu by’ukuri imiryango yose yarakinguwe, ubushuti bwaguwe n’ijambo rya Perezida ubwo yagiraga ati “Murakaza neza nk’inshuti.” Nyamara hari abantu badashaka kugaruka nk’inshuti, barashaka kuza bayobora nanone. Ibi biteye ikibazo.

Ikindi giteye inkeke ni Abafaransa kuko bafashije uruhande rubi. Bafashije abakoze Jenoside guhunga. Bafite amaraso mu biganza byabo. Kuko u Bufaransa butigeze bufasha igihugu cyahoze gikoresha ururimi rw’Igifaransa, ubu abanyarwanda benshi baravuga bati ‘ntidushaka abafaransa na rimwe, ntabwo batubaye hafi ubwo twari tubakeneye none bari kwiyigira Icyongereza n’izindi ndimi ari nabyo bituma u Bufaransa burakara kuko batakaje igihugu cyakoreshaga Igifaransa kandi ni ikosa ryabo. Bashyigikiye uruhande rubi, bafashije abajenosideri aho gufasha ababohoye igihugu.

Abandi ni Umuryango w’Abibumbye. Loni ntabwo ikunda u Rwanda kuko ruri gutera imbere nta bufasha bwayo rukoresheje rero ibyo bibarababaza kuko ubusanzwe mwakabaye mutwitabaza, mukabeshwaho natwe. Nyamara ibitekerezo byo kwigira bihamye mu Rwanda, ni nk’aho wavuga uti “Ntimwahabaye ubwo twari tubakeneye ubwo Jenoside yabaga, kuki twabakenera ibintu bimeze neza? Oya, Mwarakoze.”

Ntabwo bifuza kubona igihugu gitera imbere atari bo bagihaye inkunga. Hari ikindi kibazo giteye inkenke, abantu bahoze bari muri Guverinoma hano bakaza gufatirwa muri ruswa kandi Perezida Kagame na Guverinoma y’u Rwanda nta mpuhwe bagira kuri ruswa.

Ntibigombera aho uturuka cyangwa uwo uri we, iyo urya ruswa wisanga hanze. Nk’umuntu umaze imyaka 15 ndi mu kanama gashinzwe kugira inama Perezida, nagiye mbona abafatiwe muri ruswa bagahita batakaza imyanya bari bafite n’ububasha ubundi bagahita bajya muri Afurika y’Epfo bagatangira kwandika inkuru zivuga ya makosa bahoze bakora. Amakosa yabo niyo yatumye batihanganirwa muri iki gihugu kandi nagiye mbivuga kenshi.

IGIHE: Nubwo hari ibyagezweho byinshi, u Rwanda ruracyanengwa na bimwe mu binyamakuru by’i Burayi n’abatavuga rumwe na Leta, ubona ari iki cyakorwa ngo ibi bicogore?

Rick Warren : Icyo nzi ni uko icyo wakora cyose, ntuzabura abakunenga. Ni iby’ingenzi kuba Perezida Kagame abihorera kuko niba abantu batagukunda ntiwabahindura ngo babe nkawe. Ibyo wavuga byose kandi, baba bafite icyabateye kuvuga ibyo bashaka.

Najyaga ntekereza niba nshobora gusobanurira abantu ibijyanye n’u Rwanda, nkumva ko ko wenda bagera aho bagahinduka ariko iyo uberetse ko bari mu makosa barushaho kurakara bagashaka izindi mpamvu zituma bakwanga kurushaho.

Abanzi bazakomeza kuba abanzi gusa icyo nzi ni uko kuba mfite abayoboke 3000 b’itorero ryanjye mu Rwanda, iyo ibintu biba ari bibi nk’uko bivugwa, abantu banjye baba barabyumvise. Kuba batarabyumvise ni ukuvuga ko ari ibinyoma.

Ibivugwa bibi byose biba bifite impamvu, nta kindi wabumvisha rero kuko baba bafite impamvu. Wowe icyo usabwa ni ukubaho ubuzima bukubereye, ukabana n’urukundo mu mutima wawe. Iyo uri mu isiganwa ntabwo wita ku bakogeza n’abagukomera kuko byatuma utsindwa. Ugomba kwibanda ku ntego yawe yo gutsinda kandi igitego ni ukujyana u Rwanda mu kinyejana cya 21 ari urwa mbere rufite abaturage benshi bize cyane, babayeho neza, bafite ubwigenge, bafite ubuzima bwiza n’ibindi.

Reba ikiganiro Rick Warren yagiranye na IGIHE

Niwe Pasiteri wayoboye amasengesho ubwo Perezida Obama yarahiriraga manda ya mbere yo kuyobora Leta Zunze Ubumwe za Amerika
Pasiteri Rick Warren niwe wayoboye umuhango w'amasengesho ubwo Perezida Kagame yarahiriraga kuyobora u Rwanda muri Nzeri 2010
Uwari Mufti w'u Rwanda Habimana Saleh na Musenyeri Smaragde Mbonyintege uyobora Diyosezi ya Kabgayi bafatanyije na Pasiteri Rick Warren mu isengesho
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